Arvielo Raises Her Voice

Though the video opens by addressing the harassment she and her employees received from a competitor, Arvielo said in a later interview that she used that instance to bring a more pervasive issue to the forefront: women in the industry being bullied by men who have a toxic mindset. 

More specifically, she believes this toxic mindset stems from a “win at all costs” mentality from ultra competitive people.

Watch it on The Interest: Calling Out Mortgage Bro Culture

Legal Intimidation

Many in the industry know — or eventually come to learn — that anyone can file a lawsuit for any reason. A judge may end up dismissing the case, but the complaint still exists in the public record allowing companies to publicize potentially false allegations against competitors and damage their reputation. Essentially, this makes it easy for companies to spread rumors about competitors.

NMP’s own reader engagement data show that mortgage professionals love to indulge in other people’s drama by reading legal coverage. Lawsuits alleging bad behavior are some of the most highly trafficked stories compared to other industry topics like rate forecasts or even layoffs. 

As someone who had never even gotten a speeding ticket before, Arvielo remembers how humiliated she felt the first time she was sued.“I came apart. I was like, ‘Oh my God, it’s the end of the world,’” she recalled. “And I remember Rick, my partner and husband, said, ‘Babe, this is part of business.’ I’m like, ‘Are you kidding me? People use legal intimidation to control others?’ He’s like, ‘Yes.’”

Since then, Arvielo has dealt with her fair share of “frivolous” lawsuits, coming from other lenders. However, the lawsuit Arvielo refers to in her recent video was filed by one of the top 10 mortgage lenders in the U.S., Guaranteed Rate (G-Rate), over poaching allegations. The lawsuit garnered even more attention due to it being the first time a large lender has publicly accused a competitor of bribing originators with illegal compensation practices.

More specifically, G-Rate alleges that NAF “raided” branches across the country and poached 30 G-Rate employees by using illegal compensation practices. G-Rate accused NAF of repeatedly violating Regulation Z of The Truth in Lending Act (TILA), claiming NAF originators would reclassify a self-generated lead as a corporate-generated lead to cut down their compensation to get a low enough rate to win the client and eventually close the deal.

But, after more than two decades of being a CEO in this industry, Arvielo isn’t intimidated by G-Rate’s lawsuit. Instead, she decided to control the narrative by using the lawsuit to discuss the overall issue she has with poaching allegation lawsuits.

“Using that tactic to keep people at their current employer is just wrong,” Arvielo said. “So my message to the industry is there are a lot of U.S. employers that will protect you. I will, on behalf of employers, say there is a right way to leave an employer and there is a wrong way to leave an employer. Should you leave the right way, there is no reason you should be sued.”

G-Rate did not respond to a request for comment. 

The point of making the video in the aftermath of this lawsuit, Arvielo says, was not to respond to her competitor’s poaching allegations, but to address the root of the matter: using bullying tactics to control competitors, especially women in the industry.

Alpha Toxicity 

“Mortgage bro” and “mortgage bro culture” are terms that get thrown around the industry a lot, but lack a concrete and consistent definition. Arvielo characterizes “mortgage bros” as having a toxic, ultra-competitive mindset. She holds them responsible for perpetuating bullying and harassment against women in the mortgage industry.

“A large percentage of people in this industry have that toxic mindset. And I think a lot of it is driven by high levels of competitiveness — being so competitive that they need to win at any cost,” she said. Having been in the industry since she was 16 years old, Arvielo has had her fair share of run-ins with “mortgage bros.” But, one moment in particular has stuck with her throughout the years. 

When she was just 26 years old, Arvielo worked as a loan originator at a Countrywide branch that, at the time, ranked second among the all-time top-producing branches across the country. When the branch manager left, Arvielo thought she’d be a shoe-in for the position because she was the top producer at the branch. In the year preceding her branch manager’s departure, Arvielo said she worked constantly while raising her infant child and was preparing to deliver her second child. She eventually went into labor with her second child while at her work office. 

Despite Arvielo’s work ethic, qualifications, and record of success as a top producer, she said Countrywide had a very hard time deciding whether to promote her. She was eventually able to obtain the position, though the delivery of the news was more lackluster than expected.

“I remember the man that came to the office because he basically was told that I was the person [to be promoted],” Arvielo said. “But, he pushed the paper across the desk, saying ‘This goes against everything I believe in, because you are not the right person. You have two babies at home. ’” 

Arvielo said she out-produced everyone at that branch office, while raising her young children, and yet that was not enough to overcome the man’s bias towards women. But, time has granted Arvielo some perspective. She said that is the nature of a male-dominated industry.

“Let’s be really clear and honest about just workplaces overall. The corporate world was created by men and continued that way for hundreds of years,” Arvielo said. “Women at that time, just 50 years ago — and I’m 59 years old, so not that long ago — were intended to be at home.” 

The “mortgage bro culture” may not have been a bad thing when it was only men working together in the office, she continued, but as corporations and businesses evolve, it’s no longer appropriate.

Asked whether any retail professionals display this toxic behavior on social media, Arvielo said not really and she sees that happen more often within the broker community. However, she said it’s the same toxic mindset presenting itself. 

“This whole social media strategy where they talk negatively about each other. I mean, you are who you hear [and] you are who you hang with,” Arvielo said, adding that some egotistical leaders in the broker channel perpetuate that toxic mindset and behavior, causing others to follow their lead.

“They may think they’re getting power over people,” Arvielo said, “but really we’re just kind of looking at them and being entertained. So, be careful who you follow. Be careful who you listen to.” 

Because social media allows people to share ideas with one another across vast distances, that also makes social media a fertile breeding ground for spreading toxicity. “So I don’t think those environments thrive,” Arvielo added. “I think the ones that will thrive will be the ones that are not talking negatively, because consumers will see it.”

Lonely at The Top

Of course, not all men bully women or try to dismiss their experiences of discrimination and harassment. In fact, Arvielo said lots of men strongly advocate on behalf of women, but she wishes women were just as loud when advocating for themselves.  

“I always wanna champion men because there’s so many male leaders that get it,” Arvielo said.

One advocate in particular has been a mentor to Arvielo throughout her career, Kind Lending CEO Glenn Stearns. “I didn’t have anybody to call 15 years ago,” Arvielo recalled. “There’s no other women. I wasn’t even friends with Maryanne, the former CEO of Guild, yet we became friends and then she retired,” she continued. “Glenn is my biggest cheerleader.”

In stark contrast to the “mortgage bro” mindset, Stearns adopts an abundance mindset, believing there is enough business to go around amongst competitors. Even though everyone is fighting for a bigger piece of the pie, he is not willing to hurt others to increase his share of the market, Arvielo said — and neither is she. 

Despite the support she has, though, Arvielo admits that putting out her video was no easy feat.

“Do you know how hard it was for me to do that video?” asked Arvielo, rhetorically. “Like, for four days I couldn’t sleep because I knew the importance of my message. But, I still felt too intimidated … It’s just me being a woman leader and it is not normal for someone like me to speak up.”

Because the need to share her message outweighed her fears to do so, by sharing both Arvielo hopes other women in power will stand up for themselves. But, she said, there are so few women leaders at the top. Creating a welcoming environment for women in leadership should begin — not end — with calling out “mortgage bro culture.”

“These companies are being built on the backs of women. We lead operations. You can’t have sales without operations,” Arvielo said. “And I checked MMI data today, seeing 43% of salespeople are women. So, it’s still a very high percentage of women in business. We just need to own more of these companies.” 

Arvielo calls on more women to speak up and share their experiences with more people in the industry, both men and women, who can become their advocates.

“Very few females in our industry are talking and speaking out,” Arvielo said. “I have a big weight on my shoulders, sometimes of the responsibility I have for all the young women rising in this business.” That’s why Arvielo creates change at her own company, where 50% of the people working in the c-suite and much of her sales team are women.

“I’m not really a mortgage person. I am in the people business,” Arvielo said. “It is my job to keep people happy. And it is my job to understand that the thousand-plus loan officers I have, every single one of them has an individual personality. That it’s my job to learn how to lead, not their job to teach me how to lead them.”